Bahati's Story
M: We're going to start with some easier first questions. Bahati, where are you from?
B: I'm from Burundi but I'm Congolese.
M: What was your life like back home in Africa? Tell me about it.
B: My life—he was very good. You can say, very good. But I have too difficult for my life, because when I was get in Burundi—I was born in Congo first, and then after that I was come back. I was come to Burundi—I was looking for my father. And then when I get there, I was meet my father. So first, the life it was good. After that, because the life is very difficult there, and then I was say the life was very bad for me. But everything—it was good. Mmhm.
M: What did you do back home? What did you study? Did you work?
B: Yeah, I was study. I was student there, but about the life too—my father, he don't have money to continue to pay my school fees, so I was stop my school. And then I was going to the salon to looking the job there. I was working for the salon.
M: And what did you do there?
B: I braid the hair.
M: Okay. And you braid hair here, too, right?
B: Yeah.
M: A lot of this is for the recording. I know you know me, and you know I know a lot about you. But I’m going to ask you some questions that seem like I already know and it's for the recording so that anyone who will listen to this will know you as well as I do, or something. Does that make sense?
B: No—Okay! (Laughs) It's okay.
M: (laughs) Anyway, okay. So, you said you studied. When did you start school at home?
B: I was—actually, I don't remember very well. It's a long time, and then, you know, sometimes—I have one problem, I can say that. Because if I have the problem in my life, I say something is very difficult for me, sometimes it affects my mind or my sense. I can say that. So, I can don't remember everything.
But I was start the school—it was in 2000. In 2000, I was start the school in Burundi. When I was leave in Congo, to come to Burundi. So when I meet my father, I was start the school. After that, I was stopping my school when I was in—it’s--secondaire. High School. When I was in high school.
And then my father, he was told me he don't have any money again to go to pay for me for the school fees, so I was stopping that. And then, I was sit down to look in something I can do, for help my life.
M: And so, you went to the salon and started to work?
B: I was doing the hair in the salon. I was meet the friend there, the people. So, they was start to teach me how to do the hair. They say, “You know you don't sit like that—or stay like that. You have to do something that can help you.” After that, I was appreciate so much that one they told me. I say, “Exactly, I can don’t stay like this. I have to find something to help me. I am a woman, so I need too many stuff to use! I need the clothes, but my father he don't have!” (Laughs) He don't have that possibility to help me. But I say, “I can help myself if I do that job.” So, they have teach me. And then when they teach me that, I was very quick to know that. I don't take long time. I just do it, and then they was so happy to see that when they teach me for little bit—little bit time—and then I start to do it very good! So, they give me job. I was working in the salon: it's like that I was start my life for the jeunesse, quoi. Yeah. (Laughs) [Youth, what.]
M: Yeah, very young.
B: Yes, very young like that. So, it was help me so much, and just now I do that. If I get the customer, the people they need to do their hair, I do it because it helps me to find the small small money!
M: How old were you when you started at the salon?
B: Ah—I remember I was twelve. Twelve years, yes.
M: Twelve? In school, or at the salon?
B: In school. When I was start that one, when I was meet there, I was twelve. And then in school, I was stop my school when I have, like, it was 18.
M: Okay. So, when you were 18, you started working at the salon.
B: Yes, but before when I was twelve they was start to show me how to do the hair.
M: I think a lot of girls learn how to do hair when they're twelve or thirteen. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about—can we talk about your family? Who is in your family, and where are they now? Do they live in Burundi or Congo or here in the US?
B: Okay, I have some family live Congo. And then the family from my mother live Congo, and then from my father too: some of them they live Congo, another one they live in Burundi. Because my father he was Burundi too. When we leave Congo, we have—we are so small—young—and then we go to looking him in Burundi. We have meeting him there, and then some family we have meet there from my father.
M: So, is your father from Burundi or from the Congo?
B: He is from Congo. But he was leave Congo to go to looking the job. Sometimes you can. Born Congo—and we come—stop that—do the school—Congo. Everything Congo. We finish, but after that is difficult to get job. You have to look in some different country.
M: Why is that? Why is it difficult to find a job in Congo?
B: Oh, actually, I don't know what I can do—what I can say. Because that one too, it's happen to Burundi too. It was happen in Burundi too. Yeah, you can study there, finish the school, but you can don't get the job. I can say it's life. I don't know. Or maybe it's something about our culture. Yes, it's about the culture. Some people, they say “Oh no. This one is not from our culture. We don't need him. We can don't give him job like that.” There is too much things like, they say, violence, quoi? In French c'est ça. Que violence. [Violence, what? In French it’s that. Such violence.] There's too much things you—to get job it's very difficult there.
M: You found a job at the salon, so good for you! So, I think another question we have that will be interesting is what's one of your favorite memories from being at home in Africa?
B: My favorite memory it was, I can say, church! Cause I was like so much. Yes! I was like so much church, because I was singing there. I have the—how do you say—in French we say le camarade. I have too many people; they know me, I know them, and we love each other, we talk very good. It was so good. I was so enjoy that, church. That is my memory, my favorite memory. And right now, every day—if I remember that, I cry. I say, “Wow, if I was there”—I was so enjoying the church! That is my favorite memory.
M: Tell me about your church here.
B: My church here—when I was get here, it was very difficult to find the church because I was new. I don't know how I'm going to find the church. I don't know anywhere. And then, when we was getting here it was the summertime. [Wintertime] I was hate that so much! I say, “It’s so cold! I can don't go anywhere, so I don't know how I'm going to find the church.” But I was meet somebody here too, from Burundi, and then that guy was working with the agency. And then, he was show us the church. When we go for that church, I was looking that church but I don't feel like I need to stay there. And then our brother, he was bring one pastor here. That pastor he come here, he greet us, so that pastor he say we invite you guys to come to our church. So, when we get there the second day, we get there, and then I was feel like this is church I need to stay. And then I was singing there.
After that I say no, because my time to go to work. That church it starts later and leave late again, so I stay—I can don't stay for that church. So, I was finding another one, and that one too is good for me. The time: good. Go there, the time it starts, and then the time to leave is good for me. It make—it gives me the time to relax, to take time to do everything I need to do. Every stuff I need to do, to my house, like that.
M: You mentioned your brother. How many family members, and who in your family lives in Pittsburgh right now?
B: Here we are, like, four. Yeah. We are three sisters and one brother.
M: What about in the rest of the United States?
B: I’m sorry, I understand what you say?
M: Do you have family in the rest of the United States?
B: Yes, I have the family for another states. In Florida, I have my mother there and father. I have brothers, my older brother and young brother. I have my sister’s kid too, she is there.
M: Lot of children your mother had. How many children did your mother have?
B: From my mother—actually, she is not my mother biologique. She is my father wife. So, from my mother we are four—we are three kids. Because my father, he have too many woman! Yeah, when he was changing the country, when he going to looking the job—the country—any country he go he meet the woman, and then he get the kid! He make the kid there. So, we are the kid, but everybody we are different mother.
M: Gotcha. So, your mother, your biological mother, is in Florida, or no?
B: No.
M: Okay, gotcha. But your parents who are in Florida, they have, what, twelve kids? Who has twelve kids? Someone has twelve kids in your family.
B: Yes, it's in my family in my country.
M: In your country, okay. Twelve kids, that's a lot! Tell me about your children? Your children, your husband? Tell us about your immediate family.
B: Oh, how you say? About my husband? Or me?
M: Tell me about your family.
B: I have one children. One girl. And then, I have—that one is not my husband! We just do—we just have kids together! But yes, I was love him before. But when I come here, it's very difficult me to bring him here. But right now, I have a boyfriend. (Laughs) Because I can don't bring him [her child’s father] here. It's very difficult for me. And then I can don't stay like this! I'm woman! I'm still young! I have to get family. I have to get more kid! The one, I love. (laughs) I like to have more kid.
M: How many more kids do you want?
B: If God bless me the good life, the one you say in my family, somebody have twelve kids? I can do more for that! (Laughs)
M: You want thirteen. (Laughs)
B: Thirteen! Oh no! (Laughs) That one is too much. Actually, I prefer to make, like, five. For this life here in America five is good. But if it was back home, the life for there, if you have money, it's very easy to get ten kids.
M: Lot of kids. I only have one sister. So, let's talk about coming to America. How did you come to America? And why did you come to America?
B: I come to America—I was do the processes—refugee processes. Then the government from America it was help us to come here, because we have meet too much problem in Congo. Then when we was in Burundi, it was asked us if we need to go back Congo. We say “No, we can don't go back Congo.” Because there Congo we can don't—we can don't live there good. We have the enemy, the enemy, like I was told you before. The culture is different.
So, our culture and another culture, if we are not meet good or we don't talk each other like that, there is something is there, I don't know what I can say that in English. Is very difficult.
M: You can say it in French.
B: Okay, on a des problèmes entre les différents—diffèrent—les pays, quoi. Les cultures. You understand cultures? [We have problems between the different countries—what—the cultures.]
M: Yes, I follow you.
B: On a des problèmes entre nous, parce qu’on ne s’est pas, c'est pas bien. On a des hargnes—rancune. Je veux dire à propos des rancunes. Je ne sais pas si tu connir [connaitre] rancune. Rancune is something like, how do you call it that one? Rancune, Rancune, oh. Oh my god! I forget that. [We have problems between us, because we don’t know—it’s not good. We have the hatred—grudge, spite. I want to say something about the grudges. I don’t know if you know “grudges.” Grudge is something like…]
Ça va dire on sait, on ne ça sent un pas quoi, c'est pas bien, il y a des rancunes entre nous, [That which I said, we don’t feel that, what, it’s not good. There are grudges/spite between us.] This culture, you can say, we don't like another culture. That culture is our enemy. No? They was kill the—oh my god, I don't know. Donc, [so] they accuse you. They accuse this culture. This culture, it was kill our culture, the people from our culture. So, we need to kill them. You know? So, if you are kid, you don't know anything about the culture, it was do it for another culture. But they have to kill you because you are from that culture. It's an enemy.
So that is the problem, you can don't go back there again. Because our parent, too, he was live there in Congo. When he live in Congo it was that problem. And then that problem it was continue. It don't stop. Right now, the problem it still there. Yeah, sometimes the culture is still fire. They fight every day. So then, when we have talking to the government, and then the government was accepting us to come here, and then it's that how I—how we—have start to come here.
M: How did you get to America?
B: It was 2017.
M: Did you fly here on a plane?
B: Yes, (laughs) we have take—we have fly on a plane.
M: Was that the first time you had been on a plane?
B: It was my first time. I was so scared! I was so scared. I was so scared. I don't know. Oh my god, I was like, “I'm going to dead! I don't know if I can get in America!” But I was so happy too, to come here, because here j'avais vu que je viens en... une protection quoi. [Here I have seen that I can come into protection, what.] Nobody can do bad again for me. I don't have scared again to say maybe this culture, if he gets me or he see me, he can do bad for me. Of course, I was so happy to come here. I was so scared and happy, the both.
M: So, what did you—did you come straight to Pittsburgh when you came to America?
B: Yes, I was come straight to Pittsburgh. But on fait des escales. On dit, des escales. [But we took stops. We say, stops.] We have do that for three country. It was Kenya—Burundi to Kenya. And then Kenya we have take another flower [flight] from—it was Arabian? Dubai? And Dubai we have sit there, like, two hours or three hours. I was so sleepy. Everybody was so tired, sleeping, and then after that we have take another flower [flight] to Chicago. And then Chicago, we have do it little bit time there. But the people from there, I was like them because we was so hungry and then they give us some food. Some fruit, some we have eating, and then after that we take another flower [flight] here.
M: What time did you get to Pittsburgh? Do you remember?
B: it was night. Yes, it was night, eleven I think.
M: Do you remember what you did the first time?
B: Oh my god, the first time, was—(Laughs) I was so happy! So so so happy. Because I was never believing in my life if I can get for this country. In my life, I was think maybe it can don't happen to me to get for this country. I was think, all my life, I'm going to stay in Burundi. But I was so surprise when they accept us to come here. And then we have coming here. I was get here. I was so happy! So happy. I was crying! I was crying. I say, “God, you are so good to make me to get here.” But after that, it was night and then it was the summertime—no, is wintertime—and then it was my first time I see the snow! I was, “Ah ah! Yes, I’m happy, but I'm already worried again about this cold!” And then the snow, I say, “Ah! What is that! It's not this country I go! It's not this America!”
They say, "It’s America!" I say, "Why so many things—qu’on appelle ça les neiges en Français, oui. Et puis. [That which we call snow in French, yes. And then] I was so scared that we come to dead here! Because it was so cold! So cold. I was cry for happiness, and then I was cry because cold! For them both, I was, “Ah ah, this one is very difficult!” But I'm so happy to get here.
M: Did you have a coat when you got here? Or did you come here wearing your clothes from Africa that are for the hot weather?
B: No. They was tell us to get something for cold, because it's cold. But when they say it’s cold, I don't keep that in mind if I'm going to get here and see cold. I was think maybe the cold is finished. So, when I get here, I was, “Wow! That is the cold they was tell us.” I was wearing the jacket, but that jacket it was not strong. And the kid too! He [she] was crying, so if I see my kid—because she was very small. She was two years old. And then she cry too much, cry because cold!—When she cry, I cry too. She cry, I cry too! I say, “God why this country?!” And then this country was so cold, and I say, “Oh oh. I don't know what I'm going to do.”
M: Why not Florida, where it's hot!
B: Yeah, when we get here—because our parents was coming before us—so when we get in here, we have calling them, and then they say there it's very warm. It's warm there. It's very warm. So I say, “Here it's very cold. I don't know why they leave us here and then you guys, you go for that place where is very good!” They say, “Here is very warm like Africa.” So, we have cried every day, but we thank God because now it's not again difficult for us.
M: Well now you seem to have no problem with the cold!
B: Yeah, no problem but I don't like that! Yes, I don't like cold, but there is not any problem again! J’avais habituée. [I am used to it.]
M: I'm tempted to cry every morning in the winter. (Both laugh) So, what else did you bring with you when you came to America? You brought a small coat--
B: You talk about the people we have coming from?
M: People or things. What things did you bring with you?
B: Okay. I was bring my clothes. I was come with my sister and my kid. Just clothes, just that we have bringed.
M: How many, did you have a big suitcase?
B: No, I have like two. Because one it was for my kid, another one for me.
M: What was the most difficult part about coming to America?
B: Okay, so, the difficult to coming here. I can say, it was not difficult. But it takes long. It was take very long to get this processes to come here. We have do it for 15 years. It was so long. And then their program, or the difficult I can say, it was about the money. Because you have to travel for another place from my place I live, for another place to go to do the interview, and then you can stay there for all the day waiting that. So, to get the money for transport, and then the money for buy the food, it was very difficult. Sometimes we don't eat, all the day we stay there, we waiting for that, we cry. We cry because we don't have any food to eat. My father, he don't have any money to buy the food for us. We just manage it. When I work too in the salon, if I have a little money, I have to manage it that. To buy small-small things to eat. So, the day can pass like that.
M: So, coming to America was hard because of all of the paperwork and things you had to go through before you even come here?
B: Well, the paperwork it was not our job. The paperwork is the people they do for us that processes. It's them, they looking for that, they do everything. Just us, to go and then to do the interview, they ask all the questions, different questions: “What happened about us, what's have happened before when we come there to get the refugee like that?” Oh yes, it's that.
M: And once you got to America, was it easier? You found a job, right? And you have this house? Was it easier once you got here, or was it more difficult?
B: No, it was very easy here for the job. We have get the job after three months. We get it here, we have start job. But what was very difficult for us—because you know, if you go for a new country, you feel like you are not comfortable. You feel like you are scared, you don't know how to start that—So, it start only, I would say it was very difficult for us. Because if you go to the appointment—the hospital appointment—or you go to the office, you have to use the bus! And that bus in the winter, the snow is coming, oh my god! That one I was hate so much. I say, “This country is not good country!” But for another things, it's very good. Very very good.
I was like it because if you go to the hospital, they don't ask you money before you start the processes for hospital. You need to see the doctor, they don't ask you money. You just do everything, you examine everything, they do, and then if they can send the letter for pay they can send that after. It was good because we have not, never, to pay for our money. It’s the government from here was help us to pay, to give the insurance.
But I was very good. I was so surprise for many things I see here. So surprised, I was “Ah ah! This one is not—I don't understand.” In Africa, you don't go in the hospital like this. You go, you say, “I am sick.” But it doesn't matter if you are so sick. You have to pay the money. Before they start to look at what is going on in you, you have to pay money. If you don't have money, you can dead. You can dead. Because they say you have to pay money first so we can start to see what is going on. And then they can start to give you the medicine.
But here, I was so surprised. So surprised. You go to emergency. You know what, they receive you quick! And they start to give you the medicine, do everything, I was like, “Wow!” Ah. That is America. Yes, there is not any problem I was meeting here.
M: How have you made friends here?
B: The friends? My agency, it was put me in the one, is a group—it's group, that they call it Hello Neighbor. So that group is the group, he make you to meet for different friend. And that friend they can help you to know in Pittsburgh. They can help you to know everything you say is very difficult to you, or you don't know how to start to know that, or you don't know how to start to looking for that. They can help you to show you different things.
M: Are they normally Americans? Or other refugees who are in this group?
B: No, it was American girl like me. We have the same age too. I was so happy. But I'm so bad, I don't know—I'm so bad, because many years now it's long time I don't meet seeing her again. She was very good. But the time I was meet her it was very difficult for me, because that time I don't know how to speak little bit. For this English I speak now, I don't know how to speak that.
I don't know how I'm going to talk to her! I was like—she look at me, I look at her. She need to talk to me, and me too, I feel like I need to talk to her. The way I'm are, to show her if I'm good friend. But I don't know how to start. So, because it was very difficult for me—if she say, “Hi,” it’s “Hi” only. “How are you?” “I'm good.” And then I'm quiet! I'm start to look in the way I can talk to her. She was very—it was very difficult for me, sorry. Then after that—but she was a good woman. I can say a good girl. Because, for my difficulty I have for English she never let me—she was every day need to come to me, and then talk to me, and then she give me the—is--encourager, c'est un. [To encourage, it’s that.] And then she tell me, “Bahati, you can talk! You can do this!” I say, “No-no-no-no-no, no English!” It's that I know to say! No English!
She say, “No Bahati! You can talk, you can say anything. What do you need to say?” I say, “Ah! I know that in Swahili, but if I tell you in Swahili you can don't know that. And then you don't know French—that it the problem!” She don't know how to speak French. Even she have known how to speak French, we can talk little bit, alright. It's that.
M: So how did you learn English then?
B: Oh, the English? I was starting here! (Laughs) I was starting here. When I was say here—I can say—okay I'm sorry—I can say, to get everything here is very easy. You can get because they have the translate. Okay, you can go to the hospital, you can get the translate. But sometimes English is very good to know because it can help you too, [unintelligible] like that, you know? So in the job, in your life too, sometimes you can get different job and they pay good money. But if you don't know how to speak little bit English, you cannot never get that job. So, I was so--j'étais vraiment connectée avec ca. [I was very connected with this.] I was say I need to know how to speak English.
So, I was talking to my agency, and then my agency said, they have told me, “We going to find somebody to help you, to know how to teach you English, somebody from university.” It's that they have told me. They say, “That one he can help you.” So, every day, it was take—it was take long time, but every day I have to remind them. I call them, I say "Have you finding that people that can help me?" They say, “Ah Bahati, we are looking for him, but we don't finding him.” You know?
So, I say, “Ok, let me waiting for that.” But they told me to go to the downtown, I don't know the name for that place. But they teach the English.
M: I don’t remember the name but I know there is somewhere downtown that teaches English.
B: Yeah, downtown. That place is that school. They teach the people. I say, “For me, it's not easy to go there because I have kid. And then the time for my job, my schedule, and the schedule to come again to take care of my kid, that won't be easy. I need just somebody who can have, like, one day in the week to come teach me. That one is enough for me.” And then they have say, “Ok, just give us the time to looking for that people who can come there.” So that person, I was say, “Okay.” I was waiting waiting waiting. So, one day, it was last year, I see they bring some girl. (laughs) That girl, she was help me how to know to speak English. And then she was very close to me. Because right now, I can say I have one year—yes, one year I start to—she was start to teach me English. We take one day in the week, Sunday, and she come to my house. Yeah, she teach me the English.
Right now, I'm so happy because I can speak! (laughs) I can speak very, very well! For me it's very well. Before I don't know how to read. But she was help me. Now I can read little bit. And then I don't know how to write. Now I can write little bit. It's very wonderful for me. I'm so happy for that. (laughs)
M: It seems like overall you've had good experiences with Americans. How have other Americans treated you? Not like, your English teacher or your Hello Neighbor friend.
B: Actually? I don't have the friend now again. But I have the people we work together, the American—white American, black American. And they love me so much! The way we speak, I can say them too, they help me to have that encouragement, [French] you know? Courage. [French] To have that courage to speak English. Because they speak every day with me, they come to me, they come to me, speak-speak-speak-speak. They say, “Ah, we like you Bahati! You are very good, you are like this!” I say, “I like you too, guys!” Now we speak, anytime.
I’m sorry though for my neighbor—that girl, we are not again together. I don't know where she was going. I didn't text her, because I don't know how to text her. I don't know how to write. I don't know. It's that I was lose her. But one day I'm going to look. I'm going to looking for her again. Because I need to show her, now I can talk to her. I can be her friend. Because I don't know what she was think about me. Anytime she need to come to my house, she ask me "Can I come Bahati, to your house? We can go to get like some tea or coffee?” I say no. I say no because I don't know. I can don't go stay with her like this and look at her in the face. I don't know how to talk. So, it’s that I was like, “No. Please. I don't have time.” But I like to stay with her. The friends I have now is the friends from my job only.
M: And what do you do now? What is your job right now?
B: My job is very good. Tired, but very good. Yeah, it makes me tired. It's not easy. The job is very easy to get, but it's not easy to work because you have to stand up for eight hours. And that one too, if you are not strong you can don't do that job. You have to be sick. [You will get sick.] You can't sick.
But for me, the first time when I start that job it was very difficult. Very very difficult for me! I was cry! I say “Oh my god, my leg hurts me. I can don't stand up.” The job they were start to give me was for the pallets. I was do it, pallets, and then that pallet, you know, you have to go down, up, down, up, so my back, my legs, I was so so bad!
Sometime, I told my supervisor, I say “I am sick now. I'm going to dead if I'm stay here for two hours again. I'm going to dead!” So, he let me and give me some time to go to stay, to sit down in the chair. He say “If you are feel good, come back again the job.” I like them because it's the good person and then they understand. So, after that, now je suis habituée. I don't know how to say habituée. [I am used to it… accustomed]
M: You're used to it.
B: What?
M: You're used to it.
B: Mm. yeah. I'm used to it.
M: Good. (Both laugh)
B: Alright, yes, I'm used to it now. Thank you! Thank you, that one is new English I get! (both laugh) Now I'm used to it, I don't have any problem again. I can stand up for twelve hours, work. Sometimes I work twelve hours, fifteen hours. I can work. I'm very good. Because I was pray too. I say, “God, give me strength. Because I don't know what I’m going to do if I sit down.” I have kid, I have to take care of her, I have to buy something for her, I have to buy something for me to pay the rent, everything like that. The bills, obviously, I have to pay. So now I can stand up, and then the job is good.
I was leave that job when I was feel like my leg's no good, they bring me for another—for another job. That job, was very bad to me too. I would say that job is the same for them: you have to stand up. I was, “Ah, there is no job here you can sit? Every job you have to stand up.” So, after that, I see again I can don't stay for that job. That one it was very strong, that one it was quit.
So, I was quit, I was ask again If I can go back there for my first job. They say yes. When they see me, they were so happy! They know me. They say, “Oh, Bahati! Are you Bahati?” They say “Wow. We know you. You are good worker!” I say “Wow!” So, they was like me. When I go back there, I was start to work again, work-work-work. Look, the way God is very good!
So they give me another post—they give me another position—I need to say that—they give me another position. When I go to that position, it was for the machine. Before, I do the pallets, and then they was bring me to the package. They move me to the package, then they bring me to the machine operator. I was do it that for, like, one month, and then they hire me [promoted me]. When they finished to hire me, they give me more money, and then they was transfer me again to another building. It's the same company, but different place. When they bring me there, the boss for there too, the supervisor, the manager, they was like me. They say, “Wow, you are work very good!” They was try to give me to be backup [backup manager]. I say wow—that is a good job. So, it was that. I like my job. My job is very good.
M: How do you feel like the US government treats you? American government? Do you watch the news at all? Or do you--
B: No. But it was treat me good because it was help me for everything. But, the one thing I would say here, whatever the government it can treat you good, but they don't need somebody to be lazy. They need somebody who can work. And then, I can say, bleed [build] his life, her life, like that. They need somebody who can work very good, who can have a future, a future for his life. So, they can help you, but you too you need to help yourself. Because there is the time they going to stop their help for you. They can help you, for before—being—begin—is before?
M: Beginning?
B: Beginning. Alright. Thank you. They can help you for beginning. After that, they going to tell you, “Now we are stop.” So, you have to have that strong, the work, before they close that help so you can saving some for your—some money or to help you again.
M: But overall, you've had good experiences with Americans, good experiences.
B: Yes, I have good experiences. Because, I remember now, it's two or three years they would stop to help me for food. But they still help me insurance. I can go to the hospital anytime. They help me that, but the food stamps they don't help me, the cash—the cash they give me for every week—they have cancelled that. I don't get that again. But now I'm good! (laughs) I'm good.
Another thing I forget to tell you about the difficulty I was meeting here. I say I don’t meet any difficulty, but the difficulty was because I have kid. The place to let kid, like to leave kid when you go to the work. That one it was my difficulty. Because anytime I need to go to work, I have to think where my kid going to stay. If you don't have somebody to help you, to stay with your kid, it's very difficult. You can don't work, and then your life, you're going to see your life is no good. It's very bad because you can don't get anything. You just get the help from the government, food stamp, they can help you to give you that small-small money, to pay the rent, but it's not all your bills that they can pay. Of course, that one too if you have kid, if you don't have somebody to help you, it's very difficult here.
M: Have you had any other problems with Americans, especially white Americans? Have you faced any racism or anything like that?
B: Ah, no. No. I didn't get any problem with the American. But I just see here, some people did get that problem—they get the problem from the Americans. But for me, I can don't say bad for the Americans. It's the good person! It's that I was say, for me, is the good person.
But, you know, everywhere we have the good and the bad. In Africa, too, it's like that. There is the good person, the bad person. Here too in America, there is the bad and the good. But me, I don't have to be worried about that. Because I'm good person. I know how to stay with the people. If I see you are bad for me, I can don't do bad to you too. I have to make sure I do the good, or I'm good for you, like that.
M: So just two more questions. Number one: what should Americans in general, Americans who don't know refugees, what should Americans know about refugees? What would you like to tell Americans about refugees?
B: Okay. To tell them, I can say, the refugees is the people like them too. But the only thing why they become like refugees is because their country is no good—they fight every day. So, they need the help, some place they can stay comfortable. They can gagner la vie quoi. [Earn a good life, what.]
M: Have a good life.
B: Yes, have a good life. And then, sauver la vie. Comme ça. Sauver la vie. [Save lives. Like that. Save lives.]
M: Save their lives.
B: Like that. But it's not good to treat bad the refugees. Because we’re the people too like them. It's the people like them, but then they have problems. I can say, for example, my neighbor, she can have problem. He can have problem. When I see that problem, I have to go to help him! Because me too, one day it can happen to me. He can help me, because he see that when I was help him. It's not good to see the refugee and then start treating him like the bad person, like the animal. No. When they take care of the animal here in America, is the way they can take care of refugee too. It's that! I know here, they like animals! You can don't kill animal here! Like you kill that, you have problem! (Laughs)
M: We have a lot of pets.
B: That one, they live, they let the animal to feel free and then to enjoy! They can let the refugee too to be like that. Yeah, we are person! We are not like an animal. It's that.
(Laughs)
M: Then the last question is the same. Oh no, not the last question! There's a second page!
What do Americans need to know about Africa?
B: The Americans they need to know about Africa. Mm. That question is a little hard for me. Because they—Africa is a good country for the people that was live there. But, another thing, it's not a good country because they fight every day and then they kill people. Like violence [French]. You don't have anything that you have done bad, but they can kill you. Can be your enemy, because he’s very mad, or is very angry, because his enemy was do it bad for you. So he going to pay for another people, going to do bad. That the problem. The African, the African country—he have too much different things that's bad. It’s very bad sometimes. It's good to live there because it's our country. But it's bad for the things they do. It's what it makes us to be, to come here, and to ask help for another country.
M: Do you know what the American dream is? Have you heard of the American dream?
B: American dream. Can you explain me all that?
M: Well, let’s ask, what is your dream for life in America?
B: Oh, my dream for here—oh my dream for here is, I can say—Before when I getting here, I was dream to become, like, to sing! To sing. I would like to sing.
M: You wanna be Beyoncé? (both laugh)
B: No Beyoncé! No Beyoncé! But I like her, I like her the way she sings. But I don't need to become like her. I need to become, like, to sing the gospel—gospel music. That was my future, like my dream. And then I would like to be—to have a good life, a good life. To have my salon: that was my dream too. And then to see my family, to be feel comfortable when we are. To have a good job, good life. I can say good life, only.
M: What does America mean to you?
B: What does the American mean to me?
M: What does America mean to you? How do you feel about America?
B: I don't feel bad! I feel good! I feel good like the way I can feel with my family or with my friends from my country. I feel good if I am with them. I feel like this [America] is my family. This is my friends. This is the sister, the brother—you know? I'm comfortable.
M: Comment t'expliqué les valeurs Américains? [How would you explain American values ?]
B: Les valeurs Américains. Okay, I can say in Français ou Anglais. It's that I am looking for—I'm looking the way I'm going to talk about them! Oh, I don't know. I don't know. Je ne sais pas comment—comment explique. Ce sont les bonnes personnes quoi. Oui. They, comment ils nous accueillent, parfois. Je vais dire le comment ils nous accueillent. Ils nous accueillent very, very good. And then, what I can say? What I can tell you. It's the good people. I don't know how I can say. Son valeurs est bien parce qu’ils nous aident beaucoup. Ils nous aident beaucoup. Comme-même, les gens on a—on ne sait pas—il y a des gens qui ne cessent pas—commencer remercier les gens— [I don’t know how to explain. These are good people, yes. How they welcomed us, sometimes. I want to say it, how they welcomed us. They welcomed us very, very good… Their values are good because they help us a lot. They help us a lot as they would help themselves. The people—one doesn’t know—there are people who don’t stop {helping}—to begin to thank the people.]
M: Remercier les gens.
B : Les personnes qui les aident, mais pour moi je veux remercier beaucoup. Je dis merci pour le gouvernement, merci pour les-le gens qui nous aident et nous accueillent ici, et montre les différents choses—à nous protègent quoi. Oui. Il y a les gens qui ne dorment pas. Ils pensent toujours à nous. Les Américains sont les gens qui est bien. [People who help us, but for me I want to give so much thanks. I say thank you to the government, thank you to the people who helped us and welcomed us here, and gave different things—who protected us, yes. They are people who don’t sleep. They think always of us. Americans are people who are good.]
Is the good person. They have hearts. Yeah, they have hearts. I can don't say that they bad people. For some people, you know, is the bad person. Maybe they is do it bad for them. But me, I don't get that bad. I don't see that. I just get every day the Americans good people. They talk to me, they help me, they show me a good heart. And then the people. J'arrivais ici, je n'ai aucune difficulté comme moi arriver quoi. C’est qui arrive, mais moi non. C’était tous simplement ap—à propos de mon enfant, pour la place pour la laisser, c'est juste que me menacer que je juger. C’est mon problème. C’est le problème que j'agis. I can say, les valeurs aussi, c'est parce que— [I arrived here, I didn’t have any difficulty how I arrived. Some who arrived, but me no. It was just because of my kid, for a place to leave her. It was just that that I judged was my problem. That was the problem that bothered me. I can say, the values also, that was because—]
You know in Africa, you can stay in Africa but you can never, never get that future. To say, I'm going—one day, I'm going to drive a car! One day I'm going to have my account. You know, one day I'm going to have the good life, to enjoy my life. Sometimes you can need that future, but you can don't never get. But here, in America, c'est ça les valeurs. Donc, il va prendre tous les gens a même temps... à même positions... donc, il n’y a pas des Américains, il n’y a pas des blonds, il n'y a pas des noirs, il n’y a pas quoi. Tout le monde, nous sommes de la même valeur. Nous sommes de la même cause. [These are the values. So, one is going to put all people at the same time in the same position. You don’t have Americans, whites, blacks, or whatever. The whole world, we are of the same value. We are for the same cause.]
Because we work for the same job. We can eat the same food. There is no way you can say, this one is rich, this one is—no, no, no. Sometimes the rich, too, they come to work at my work. It's my boss, but we work together! The big boss! If he come, he sees something is very hard for me, or it’s too much, I can don't finish that quick, he come to help me! And then you can don't know that, if somebody don't tell you this one is big boss, you can don't know. He's rich, but he come to work like you. So, it's--c'est prendre comme toi. Il ne va pas montrer comme c'est moi qui est riche. Ils ont des—beaucoup des choses. Ils ont des beaucoup des choses qui était montrer, qui est ça c’est—qui va t'apprécier quoi. Pour voir qu’ils ce sont les bonnes, les bonnes personnes. [He is taken just like you. He won’t put forth that it’s “me who is rich.” They {Americans} have many, many things. They have many things to show like that, that they are going to appreciate you. To see that they are good, good people.]
M: Aussi la liberté. [Also freedom]
B: La liberté, oui. C’est ça la liberté, si tu, tu—tu—if you work with your boss. You work together. In Africa you can don't work with your boss. The boss, he come just to tell you hey, do this. Do this, do this. But if you work with your boss, tu as les libertés, bonne. Tu peux parler avec lui, tu peux lui dit blagues, causes. C’est ça, la liberté. C’est éclair je dis que c'est sont les bonne personnes. Oui. [Liberty, yes. That’s freedom, if you, you—you—… you have liberty, good. You can speak with him, you can make jokes, argue. That’s freedom. It’s clear, I say, that they are good people. Yes.]
M: Do you want to stay in America for the rest of your life? Or do you want to return home?
B: (Laughs) Oh yeah, that one. If you told me to—I can don't get. I can don't go back home. No. Because I tell you: they was ask me that before I come here. They was ask us that question. We say no. Because why? They know we have the enemy there. And that enemy, they don't think good things for us. They just think to kill us if they see us. So, of course we can don't go there, because il n’y a pas des libertés. Il n’y a pas des paix. Peace. No—no peace. [There is no freedom. There is no peace.]
M: Do you want to become a citizen in America? Une citoyenne?
B: Citoyenne? No, I don't have that.
M: Tu veux? You want to be a citizen in America? You want me to say in it French? Tu veux être une citoyenne ici, aux États Unis?
B : Oui, c'est bonne idée. C'est bien. J'espère que personne peux pas—peux pas refuser ça. C'est bien. [Yes, it’s a nice idea. That’s good. I hope that no one—no one could refuse that. It’s good.]
M: Il y a beaucoup des temps avant ça. [There is some time before that.] Do you think of yourself as a refugee, or do you think of yourself as an American or an African?
B: Me, I think of myself—actually, I don't think anything! (Laughs) I don't think if I'm refugee. Sometimes I forget that I’m refugee. I think I'm home now. It's that I think. This is my home, my country. I don't know about, say, refugee, African. Sometime if they ask about the African, yeah-yeah, I remember I say, “Yes, I'm African.” But the thing about if I'm refugee or American or African—no. That one sometimes it don't come into my mind.
M: You're just Bahati.
B: I'm just Bahati. “Where you live?” “I live here, in Crafton, in America.”—But about Africa, that one sometimes it don't come into my mind. Because the only thing I was need in my life was protect—protection. It's that I was need. Some place I can feel like I'm free, I’m comfortable, I have peace only. That is just my life. I need only peace, be free, and then feel comfortable, and do everything I need to do in my life.
M: Is there anything else before we finish, anything else that you want to tell us about your life that we have not already talked about?
B: No, I don't have anything about that. Just I'm so happy. I'm so happy to see you guys, to give me this time to explain myself, and then to remind me everything I was forget. That one you know, I was forget. I don't know, because sometimes I need just to know my future. But now, it’s like you remind me where I was from, and what I need to do now. Like a future. Like my dreams. You remind me to be wake up if I was sleeping. Now I have to wake up again, to start to fight about my life. To start—it's that, I say thank you for, to show me again if I can explain myself about my life in English.
You see, that one is a good! It's good because I don't believe myself if I can do this time to explain myself like this in English. Before, if I see somebody, he explains in English, he talks in English—it's like I hear just the sound. You see, the sound. I don't hear anything; it's just the sound he do that I hear. I say, “Ah! What he is talk about?”
I can never talk on my life in this language. I don't know what it going to help me? What is that? But now look. It helps me too much. Too much. So, one thing I can say. Je peux dire ça en Français. Il ne faut pas jamais refuser ou négliger de faire les choses parfois tous les choses est très importants. Si c'est un langage, ou si c'est la travaille, si c'est—donc, je peux dire : everything is important. [I want to say this in French. You can never refuse or neglect to do anything, because everything is very important. If it’s a language, or if it’s the work, if it’s—So, I want to say: everything is important.]
Because now, look! I talk English. Before, I don’t know if I can talk them. I don't know if one day I can talk that. I don't know. I didn't know in my life that I can speak like this. I was hate so much the people they talk [English]. I remember one day I was in school, and then if the English teacher come in the class, I just leave class and go! It's that I do!
So, everybody they was so surprised. What?! Every day they ask me, “Why you don't like to stay if the teacher is coming?” And I say, “What is this language going to help me? It's going to take my time. I need to do another thing. But English, no. I can never leave this life. I can never leave this country.” I didn't have that. I don't believe one day it can happen to me.
But right now, I'm here. I thank God for that. So, everything is important. Everything.
M: Anything else you want to talk about before we conclude?
B: Yes. I know this one, this interview, is going to be heared for everybody everywhere. So, the only thing I can say about Americans is the good person. I could like to tell them to stay with that heart. To help the refugee. Because too many people they suffer there. They suff [suffer] so much. So much. You can don't see that because we are here. But if you go in Africa, you can see that.
It's good to continue to help the refugees. To open that door. To bring them here. That one, it's very good. They're [Americans] going to--donc, il va sauver beaucoup des gens. Oui. Au lieu, ne laisser des gens mourir. C’est mieux les sauver. C’est comme ça. C’est ça que je veux dire. [So, they can save many people. Yes. There, don’t let people die. It’s better to save them. It’s like that. That’s what I want to say.]
M: Très bien. Merci beaucoup. [Very good. Thank you so much.] Do you have anything you would like to show us that you've talk about, any pictures or books or anything you've talked about?
B: Okay, my picture from back home—I don't remember if I was bring them, or if I have them back here. I like to show—er, to share that. But the problem is, I have to look for that. I don't remember if I have it. But that one is good too, because I need to show the people my life. The before, and the life now. It's different; it's a big difference. So maybe they can know that this thing we do for help the refugee to come here is a good thing.
M: I think we can finish the recording now. It's, what, about, 5pm?
End of interview
B: I'm from Burundi but I'm Congolese.
M: What was your life like back home in Africa? Tell me about it.
B: My life—he was very good. You can say, very good. But I have too difficult for my life, because when I was get in Burundi—I was born in Congo first, and then after that I was come back. I was come to Burundi—I was looking for my father. And then when I get there, I was meet my father. So first, the life it was good. After that, because the life is very difficult there, and then I was say the life was very bad for me. But everything—it was good. Mmhm.
M: What did you do back home? What did you study? Did you work?
B: Yeah, I was study. I was student there, but about the life too—my father, he don't have money to continue to pay my school fees, so I was stop my school. And then I was going to the salon to looking the job there. I was working for the salon.
M: And what did you do there?
B: I braid the hair.
M: Okay. And you braid hair here, too, right?
B: Yeah.
M: A lot of this is for the recording. I know you know me, and you know I know a lot about you. But I’m going to ask you some questions that seem like I already know and it's for the recording so that anyone who will listen to this will know you as well as I do, or something. Does that make sense?
B: No—Okay! (Laughs) It's okay.
M: (laughs) Anyway, okay. So, you said you studied. When did you start school at home?
B: I was—actually, I don't remember very well. It's a long time, and then, you know, sometimes—I have one problem, I can say that. Because if I have the problem in my life, I say something is very difficult for me, sometimes it affects my mind or my sense. I can say that. So, I can don't remember everything.
But I was start the school—it was in 2000. In 2000, I was start the school in Burundi. When I was leave in Congo, to come to Burundi. So when I meet my father, I was start the school. After that, I was stopping my school when I was in—it’s--secondaire. High School. When I was in high school.
And then my father, he was told me he don't have any money again to go to pay for me for the school fees, so I was stopping that. And then, I was sit down to look in something I can do, for help my life.
M: And so, you went to the salon and started to work?
B: I was doing the hair in the salon. I was meet the friend there, the people. So, they was start to teach me how to do the hair. They say, “You know you don't sit like that—or stay like that. You have to do something that can help you.” After that, I was appreciate so much that one they told me. I say, “Exactly, I can don’t stay like this. I have to find something to help me. I am a woman, so I need too many stuff to use! I need the clothes, but my father he don't have!” (Laughs) He don't have that possibility to help me. But I say, “I can help myself if I do that job.” So, they have teach me. And then when they teach me that, I was very quick to know that. I don't take long time. I just do it, and then they was so happy to see that when they teach me for little bit—little bit time—and then I start to do it very good! So, they give me job. I was working in the salon: it's like that I was start my life for the jeunesse, quoi. Yeah. (Laughs) [Youth, what.]
M: Yeah, very young.
B: Yes, very young like that. So, it was help me so much, and just now I do that. If I get the customer, the people they need to do their hair, I do it because it helps me to find the small small money!
M: How old were you when you started at the salon?
B: Ah—I remember I was twelve. Twelve years, yes.
M: Twelve? In school, or at the salon?
B: In school. When I was start that one, when I was meet there, I was twelve. And then in school, I was stop my school when I have, like, it was 18.
M: Okay. So, when you were 18, you started working at the salon.
B: Yes, but before when I was twelve they was start to show me how to do the hair.
M: I think a lot of girls learn how to do hair when they're twelve or thirteen. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about—can we talk about your family? Who is in your family, and where are they now? Do they live in Burundi or Congo or here in the US?
B: Okay, I have some family live Congo. And then the family from my mother live Congo, and then from my father too: some of them they live Congo, another one they live in Burundi. Because my father he was Burundi too. When we leave Congo, we have—we are so small—young—and then we go to looking him in Burundi. We have meeting him there, and then some family we have meet there from my father.
M: So, is your father from Burundi or from the Congo?
B: He is from Congo. But he was leave Congo to go to looking the job. Sometimes you can. Born Congo—and we come—stop that—do the school—Congo. Everything Congo. We finish, but after that is difficult to get job. You have to look in some different country.
M: Why is that? Why is it difficult to find a job in Congo?
B: Oh, actually, I don't know what I can do—what I can say. Because that one too, it's happen to Burundi too. It was happen in Burundi too. Yeah, you can study there, finish the school, but you can don't get the job. I can say it's life. I don't know. Or maybe it's something about our culture. Yes, it's about the culture. Some people, they say “Oh no. This one is not from our culture. We don't need him. We can don't give him job like that.” There is too much things like, they say, violence, quoi? In French c'est ça. Que violence. [Violence, what? In French it’s that. Such violence.] There's too much things you—to get job it's very difficult there.
M: You found a job at the salon, so good for you! So, I think another question we have that will be interesting is what's one of your favorite memories from being at home in Africa?
B: My favorite memory it was, I can say, church! Cause I was like so much. Yes! I was like so much church, because I was singing there. I have the—how do you say—in French we say le camarade. I have too many people; they know me, I know them, and we love each other, we talk very good. It was so good. I was so enjoy that, church. That is my memory, my favorite memory. And right now, every day—if I remember that, I cry. I say, “Wow, if I was there”—I was so enjoying the church! That is my favorite memory.
M: Tell me about your church here.
B: My church here—when I was get here, it was very difficult to find the church because I was new. I don't know how I'm going to find the church. I don't know anywhere. And then, when we was getting here it was the summertime. [Wintertime] I was hate that so much! I say, “It’s so cold! I can don't go anywhere, so I don't know how I'm going to find the church.” But I was meet somebody here too, from Burundi, and then that guy was working with the agency. And then, he was show us the church. When we go for that church, I was looking that church but I don't feel like I need to stay there. And then our brother, he was bring one pastor here. That pastor he come here, he greet us, so that pastor he say we invite you guys to come to our church. So, when we get there the second day, we get there, and then I was feel like this is church I need to stay. And then I was singing there.
After that I say no, because my time to go to work. That church it starts later and leave late again, so I stay—I can don't stay for that church. So, I was finding another one, and that one too is good for me. The time: good. Go there, the time it starts, and then the time to leave is good for me. It make—it gives me the time to relax, to take time to do everything I need to do. Every stuff I need to do, to my house, like that.
M: You mentioned your brother. How many family members, and who in your family lives in Pittsburgh right now?
B: Here we are, like, four. Yeah. We are three sisters and one brother.
M: What about in the rest of the United States?
B: I’m sorry, I understand what you say?
M: Do you have family in the rest of the United States?
B: Yes, I have the family for another states. In Florida, I have my mother there and father. I have brothers, my older brother and young brother. I have my sister’s kid too, she is there.
M: Lot of children your mother had. How many children did your mother have?
B: From my mother—actually, she is not my mother biologique. She is my father wife. So, from my mother we are four—we are three kids. Because my father, he have too many woman! Yeah, when he was changing the country, when he going to looking the job—the country—any country he go he meet the woman, and then he get the kid! He make the kid there. So, we are the kid, but everybody we are different mother.
M: Gotcha. So, your mother, your biological mother, is in Florida, or no?
B: No.
M: Okay, gotcha. But your parents who are in Florida, they have, what, twelve kids? Who has twelve kids? Someone has twelve kids in your family.
B: Yes, it's in my family in my country.
M: In your country, okay. Twelve kids, that's a lot! Tell me about your children? Your children, your husband? Tell us about your immediate family.
B: Oh, how you say? About my husband? Or me?
M: Tell me about your family.
B: I have one children. One girl. And then, I have—that one is not my husband! We just do—we just have kids together! But yes, I was love him before. But when I come here, it's very difficult me to bring him here. But right now, I have a boyfriend. (Laughs) Because I can don't bring him [her child’s father] here. It's very difficult for me. And then I can don't stay like this! I'm woman! I'm still young! I have to get family. I have to get more kid! The one, I love. (laughs) I like to have more kid.
M: How many more kids do you want?
B: If God bless me the good life, the one you say in my family, somebody have twelve kids? I can do more for that! (Laughs)
M: You want thirteen. (Laughs)
B: Thirteen! Oh no! (Laughs) That one is too much. Actually, I prefer to make, like, five. For this life here in America five is good. But if it was back home, the life for there, if you have money, it's very easy to get ten kids.
M: Lot of kids. I only have one sister. So, let's talk about coming to America. How did you come to America? And why did you come to America?
B: I come to America—I was do the processes—refugee processes. Then the government from America it was help us to come here, because we have meet too much problem in Congo. Then when we was in Burundi, it was asked us if we need to go back Congo. We say “No, we can don't go back Congo.” Because there Congo we can don't—we can don't live there good. We have the enemy, the enemy, like I was told you before. The culture is different.
So, our culture and another culture, if we are not meet good or we don't talk each other like that, there is something is there, I don't know what I can say that in English. Is very difficult.
M: You can say it in French.
B: Okay, on a des problèmes entre les différents—diffèrent—les pays, quoi. Les cultures. You understand cultures? [We have problems between the different countries—what—the cultures.]
M: Yes, I follow you.
B: On a des problèmes entre nous, parce qu’on ne s’est pas, c'est pas bien. On a des hargnes—rancune. Je veux dire à propos des rancunes. Je ne sais pas si tu connir [connaitre] rancune. Rancune is something like, how do you call it that one? Rancune, Rancune, oh. Oh my god! I forget that. [We have problems between us, because we don’t know—it’s not good. We have the hatred—grudge, spite. I want to say something about the grudges. I don’t know if you know “grudges.” Grudge is something like…]
Ça va dire on sait, on ne ça sent un pas quoi, c'est pas bien, il y a des rancunes entre nous, [That which I said, we don’t feel that, what, it’s not good. There are grudges/spite between us.] This culture, you can say, we don't like another culture. That culture is our enemy. No? They was kill the—oh my god, I don't know. Donc, [so] they accuse you. They accuse this culture. This culture, it was kill our culture, the people from our culture. So, we need to kill them. You know? So, if you are kid, you don't know anything about the culture, it was do it for another culture. But they have to kill you because you are from that culture. It's an enemy.
So that is the problem, you can don't go back there again. Because our parent, too, he was live there in Congo. When he live in Congo it was that problem. And then that problem it was continue. It don't stop. Right now, the problem it still there. Yeah, sometimes the culture is still fire. They fight every day. So then, when we have talking to the government, and then the government was accepting us to come here, and then it's that how I—how we—have start to come here.
M: How did you get to America?
B: It was 2017.
M: Did you fly here on a plane?
B: Yes, (laughs) we have take—we have fly on a plane.
M: Was that the first time you had been on a plane?
B: It was my first time. I was so scared! I was so scared. I was so scared. I don't know. Oh my god, I was like, “I'm going to dead! I don't know if I can get in America!” But I was so happy too, to come here, because here j'avais vu que je viens en... une protection quoi. [Here I have seen that I can come into protection, what.] Nobody can do bad again for me. I don't have scared again to say maybe this culture, if he gets me or he see me, he can do bad for me. Of course, I was so happy to come here. I was so scared and happy, the both.
M: So, what did you—did you come straight to Pittsburgh when you came to America?
B: Yes, I was come straight to Pittsburgh. But on fait des escales. On dit, des escales. [But we took stops. We say, stops.] We have do that for three country. It was Kenya—Burundi to Kenya. And then Kenya we have take another flower [flight] from—it was Arabian? Dubai? And Dubai we have sit there, like, two hours or three hours. I was so sleepy. Everybody was so tired, sleeping, and then after that we have take another flower [flight] to Chicago. And then Chicago, we have do it little bit time there. But the people from there, I was like them because we was so hungry and then they give us some food. Some fruit, some we have eating, and then after that we take another flower [flight] here.
M: What time did you get to Pittsburgh? Do you remember?
B: it was night. Yes, it was night, eleven I think.
M: Do you remember what you did the first time?
B: Oh my god, the first time, was—(Laughs) I was so happy! So so so happy. Because I was never believing in my life if I can get for this country. In my life, I was think maybe it can don't happen to me to get for this country. I was think, all my life, I'm going to stay in Burundi. But I was so surprise when they accept us to come here. And then we have coming here. I was get here. I was so happy! So happy. I was crying! I was crying. I say, “God, you are so good to make me to get here.” But after that, it was night and then it was the summertime—no, is wintertime—and then it was my first time I see the snow! I was, “Ah ah! Yes, I’m happy, but I'm already worried again about this cold!” And then the snow, I say, “Ah! What is that! It's not this country I go! It's not this America!”
They say, "It’s America!" I say, "Why so many things—qu’on appelle ça les neiges en Français, oui. Et puis. [That which we call snow in French, yes. And then] I was so scared that we come to dead here! Because it was so cold! So cold. I was cry for happiness, and then I was cry because cold! For them both, I was, “Ah ah, this one is very difficult!” But I'm so happy to get here.
M: Did you have a coat when you got here? Or did you come here wearing your clothes from Africa that are for the hot weather?
B: No. They was tell us to get something for cold, because it's cold. But when they say it’s cold, I don't keep that in mind if I'm going to get here and see cold. I was think maybe the cold is finished. So, when I get here, I was, “Wow! That is the cold they was tell us.” I was wearing the jacket, but that jacket it was not strong. And the kid too! He [she] was crying, so if I see my kid—because she was very small. She was two years old. And then she cry too much, cry because cold!—When she cry, I cry too. She cry, I cry too! I say, “God why this country?!” And then this country was so cold, and I say, “Oh oh. I don't know what I'm going to do.”
M: Why not Florida, where it's hot!
B: Yeah, when we get here—because our parents was coming before us—so when we get in here, we have calling them, and then they say there it's very warm. It's warm there. It's very warm. So I say, “Here it's very cold. I don't know why they leave us here and then you guys, you go for that place where is very good!” They say, “Here is very warm like Africa.” So, we have cried every day, but we thank God because now it's not again difficult for us.
M: Well now you seem to have no problem with the cold!
B: Yeah, no problem but I don't like that! Yes, I don't like cold, but there is not any problem again! J’avais habituée. [I am used to it.]
M: I'm tempted to cry every morning in the winter. (Both laugh) So, what else did you bring with you when you came to America? You brought a small coat--
B: You talk about the people we have coming from?
M: People or things. What things did you bring with you?
B: Okay. I was bring my clothes. I was come with my sister and my kid. Just clothes, just that we have bringed.
M: How many, did you have a big suitcase?
B: No, I have like two. Because one it was for my kid, another one for me.
M: What was the most difficult part about coming to America?
B: Okay, so, the difficult to coming here. I can say, it was not difficult. But it takes long. It was take very long to get this processes to come here. We have do it for 15 years. It was so long. And then their program, or the difficult I can say, it was about the money. Because you have to travel for another place from my place I live, for another place to go to do the interview, and then you can stay there for all the day waiting that. So, to get the money for transport, and then the money for buy the food, it was very difficult. Sometimes we don't eat, all the day we stay there, we waiting for that, we cry. We cry because we don't have any food to eat. My father, he don't have any money to buy the food for us. We just manage it. When I work too in the salon, if I have a little money, I have to manage it that. To buy small-small things to eat. So, the day can pass like that.
M: So, coming to America was hard because of all of the paperwork and things you had to go through before you even come here?
B: Well, the paperwork it was not our job. The paperwork is the people they do for us that processes. It's them, they looking for that, they do everything. Just us, to go and then to do the interview, they ask all the questions, different questions: “What happened about us, what's have happened before when we come there to get the refugee like that?” Oh yes, it's that.
M: And once you got to America, was it easier? You found a job, right? And you have this house? Was it easier once you got here, or was it more difficult?
B: No, it was very easy here for the job. We have get the job after three months. We get it here, we have start job. But what was very difficult for us—because you know, if you go for a new country, you feel like you are not comfortable. You feel like you are scared, you don't know how to start that—So, it start only, I would say it was very difficult for us. Because if you go to the appointment—the hospital appointment—or you go to the office, you have to use the bus! And that bus in the winter, the snow is coming, oh my god! That one I was hate so much. I say, “This country is not good country!” But for another things, it's very good. Very very good.
I was like it because if you go to the hospital, they don't ask you money before you start the processes for hospital. You need to see the doctor, they don't ask you money. You just do everything, you examine everything, they do, and then if they can send the letter for pay they can send that after. It was good because we have not, never, to pay for our money. It’s the government from here was help us to pay, to give the insurance.
But I was very good. I was so surprise for many things I see here. So surprised, I was “Ah ah! This one is not—I don't understand.” In Africa, you don't go in the hospital like this. You go, you say, “I am sick.” But it doesn't matter if you are so sick. You have to pay the money. Before they start to look at what is going on in you, you have to pay money. If you don't have money, you can dead. You can dead. Because they say you have to pay money first so we can start to see what is going on. And then they can start to give you the medicine.
But here, I was so surprised. So surprised. You go to emergency. You know what, they receive you quick! And they start to give you the medicine, do everything, I was like, “Wow!” Ah. That is America. Yes, there is not any problem I was meeting here.
M: How have you made friends here?
B: The friends? My agency, it was put me in the one, is a group—it's group, that they call it Hello Neighbor. So that group is the group, he make you to meet for different friend. And that friend they can help you to know in Pittsburgh. They can help you to know everything you say is very difficult to you, or you don't know how to start to know that, or you don't know how to start to looking for that. They can help you to show you different things.
M: Are they normally Americans? Or other refugees who are in this group?
B: No, it was American girl like me. We have the same age too. I was so happy. But I'm so bad, I don't know—I'm so bad, because many years now it's long time I don't meet seeing her again. She was very good. But the time I was meet her it was very difficult for me, because that time I don't know how to speak little bit. For this English I speak now, I don't know how to speak that.
I don't know how I'm going to talk to her! I was like—she look at me, I look at her. She need to talk to me, and me too, I feel like I need to talk to her. The way I'm are, to show her if I'm good friend. But I don't know how to start. So, because it was very difficult for me—if she say, “Hi,” it’s “Hi” only. “How are you?” “I'm good.” And then I'm quiet! I'm start to look in the way I can talk to her. She was very—it was very difficult for me, sorry. Then after that—but she was a good woman. I can say a good girl. Because, for my difficulty I have for English she never let me—she was every day need to come to me, and then talk to me, and then she give me the—is--encourager, c'est un. [To encourage, it’s that.] And then she tell me, “Bahati, you can talk! You can do this!” I say, “No-no-no-no-no, no English!” It's that I know to say! No English!
She say, “No Bahati! You can talk, you can say anything. What do you need to say?” I say, “Ah! I know that in Swahili, but if I tell you in Swahili you can don't know that. And then you don't know French—that it the problem!” She don't know how to speak French. Even she have known how to speak French, we can talk little bit, alright. It's that.
M: So how did you learn English then?
B: Oh, the English? I was starting here! (Laughs) I was starting here. When I was say here—I can say—okay I'm sorry—I can say, to get everything here is very easy. You can get because they have the translate. Okay, you can go to the hospital, you can get the translate. But sometimes English is very good to know because it can help you too, [unintelligible] like that, you know? So in the job, in your life too, sometimes you can get different job and they pay good money. But if you don't know how to speak little bit English, you cannot never get that job. So, I was so--j'étais vraiment connectée avec ca. [I was very connected with this.] I was say I need to know how to speak English.
So, I was talking to my agency, and then my agency said, they have told me, “We going to find somebody to help you, to know how to teach you English, somebody from university.” It's that they have told me. They say, “That one he can help you.” So, every day, it was take—it was take long time, but every day I have to remind them. I call them, I say "Have you finding that people that can help me?" They say, “Ah Bahati, we are looking for him, but we don't finding him.” You know?
So, I say, “Ok, let me waiting for that.” But they told me to go to the downtown, I don't know the name for that place. But they teach the English.
M: I don’t remember the name but I know there is somewhere downtown that teaches English.
B: Yeah, downtown. That place is that school. They teach the people. I say, “For me, it's not easy to go there because I have kid. And then the time for my job, my schedule, and the schedule to come again to take care of my kid, that won't be easy. I need just somebody who can have, like, one day in the week to come teach me. That one is enough for me.” And then they have say, “Ok, just give us the time to looking for that people who can come there.” So that person, I was say, “Okay.” I was waiting waiting waiting. So, one day, it was last year, I see they bring some girl. (laughs) That girl, she was help me how to know to speak English. And then she was very close to me. Because right now, I can say I have one year—yes, one year I start to—she was start to teach me English. We take one day in the week, Sunday, and she come to my house. Yeah, she teach me the English.
Right now, I'm so happy because I can speak! (laughs) I can speak very, very well! For me it's very well. Before I don't know how to read. But she was help me. Now I can read little bit. And then I don't know how to write. Now I can write little bit. It's very wonderful for me. I'm so happy for that. (laughs)
M: It seems like overall you've had good experiences with Americans. How have other Americans treated you? Not like, your English teacher or your Hello Neighbor friend.
B: Actually? I don't have the friend now again. But I have the people we work together, the American—white American, black American. And they love me so much! The way we speak, I can say them too, they help me to have that encouragement, [French] you know? Courage. [French] To have that courage to speak English. Because they speak every day with me, they come to me, they come to me, speak-speak-speak-speak. They say, “Ah, we like you Bahati! You are very good, you are like this!” I say, “I like you too, guys!” Now we speak, anytime.
I’m sorry though for my neighbor—that girl, we are not again together. I don't know where she was going. I didn't text her, because I don't know how to text her. I don't know how to write. I don't know. It's that I was lose her. But one day I'm going to look. I'm going to looking for her again. Because I need to show her, now I can talk to her. I can be her friend. Because I don't know what she was think about me. Anytime she need to come to my house, she ask me "Can I come Bahati, to your house? We can go to get like some tea or coffee?” I say no. I say no because I don't know. I can don't go stay with her like this and look at her in the face. I don't know how to talk. So, it’s that I was like, “No. Please. I don't have time.” But I like to stay with her. The friends I have now is the friends from my job only.
M: And what do you do now? What is your job right now?
B: My job is very good. Tired, but very good. Yeah, it makes me tired. It's not easy. The job is very easy to get, but it's not easy to work because you have to stand up for eight hours. And that one too, if you are not strong you can don't do that job. You have to be sick. [You will get sick.] You can't sick.
But for me, the first time when I start that job it was very difficult. Very very difficult for me! I was cry! I say “Oh my god, my leg hurts me. I can don't stand up.” The job they were start to give me was for the pallets. I was do it, pallets, and then that pallet, you know, you have to go down, up, down, up, so my back, my legs, I was so so bad!
Sometime, I told my supervisor, I say “I am sick now. I'm going to dead if I'm stay here for two hours again. I'm going to dead!” So, he let me and give me some time to go to stay, to sit down in the chair. He say “If you are feel good, come back again the job.” I like them because it's the good person and then they understand. So, after that, now je suis habituée. I don't know how to say habituée. [I am used to it… accustomed]
M: You're used to it.
B: What?
M: You're used to it.
B: Mm. yeah. I'm used to it.
M: Good. (Both laugh)
B: Alright, yes, I'm used to it now. Thank you! Thank you, that one is new English I get! (both laugh) Now I'm used to it, I don't have any problem again. I can stand up for twelve hours, work. Sometimes I work twelve hours, fifteen hours. I can work. I'm very good. Because I was pray too. I say, “God, give me strength. Because I don't know what I’m going to do if I sit down.” I have kid, I have to take care of her, I have to buy something for her, I have to buy something for me to pay the rent, everything like that. The bills, obviously, I have to pay. So now I can stand up, and then the job is good.
I was leave that job when I was feel like my leg's no good, they bring me for another—for another job. That job, was very bad to me too. I would say that job is the same for them: you have to stand up. I was, “Ah, there is no job here you can sit? Every job you have to stand up.” So, after that, I see again I can don't stay for that job. That one it was very strong, that one it was quit.
So, I was quit, I was ask again If I can go back there for my first job. They say yes. When they see me, they were so happy! They know me. They say, “Oh, Bahati! Are you Bahati?” They say “Wow. We know you. You are good worker!” I say “Wow!” So, they was like me. When I go back there, I was start to work again, work-work-work. Look, the way God is very good!
So they give me another post—they give me another position—I need to say that—they give me another position. When I go to that position, it was for the machine. Before, I do the pallets, and then they was bring me to the package. They move me to the package, then they bring me to the machine operator. I was do it that for, like, one month, and then they hire me [promoted me]. When they finished to hire me, they give me more money, and then they was transfer me again to another building. It's the same company, but different place. When they bring me there, the boss for there too, the supervisor, the manager, they was like me. They say, “Wow, you are work very good!” They was try to give me to be backup [backup manager]. I say wow—that is a good job. So, it was that. I like my job. My job is very good.
M: How do you feel like the US government treats you? American government? Do you watch the news at all? Or do you--
B: No. But it was treat me good because it was help me for everything. But, the one thing I would say here, whatever the government it can treat you good, but they don't need somebody to be lazy. They need somebody who can work. And then, I can say, bleed [build] his life, her life, like that. They need somebody who can work very good, who can have a future, a future for his life. So, they can help you, but you too you need to help yourself. Because there is the time they going to stop their help for you. They can help you, for before—being—begin—is before?
M: Beginning?
B: Beginning. Alright. Thank you. They can help you for beginning. After that, they going to tell you, “Now we are stop.” So, you have to have that strong, the work, before they close that help so you can saving some for your—some money or to help you again.
M: But overall, you've had good experiences with Americans, good experiences.
B: Yes, I have good experiences. Because, I remember now, it's two or three years they would stop to help me for food. But they still help me insurance. I can go to the hospital anytime. They help me that, but the food stamps they don't help me, the cash—the cash they give me for every week—they have cancelled that. I don't get that again. But now I'm good! (laughs) I'm good.
Another thing I forget to tell you about the difficulty I was meeting here. I say I don’t meet any difficulty, but the difficulty was because I have kid. The place to let kid, like to leave kid when you go to the work. That one it was my difficulty. Because anytime I need to go to work, I have to think where my kid going to stay. If you don't have somebody to help you, to stay with your kid, it's very difficult. You can don't work, and then your life, you're going to see your life is no good. It's very bad because you can don't get anything. You just get the help from the government, food stamp, they can help you to give you that small-small money, to pay the rent, but it's not all your bills that they can pay. Of course, that one too if you have kid, if you don't have somebody to help you, it's very difficult here.
M: Have you had any other problems with Americans, especially white Americans? Have you faced any racism or anything like that?
B: Ah, no. No. I didn't get any problem with the American. But I just see here, some people did get that problem—they get the problem from the Americans. But for me, I can don't say bad for the Americans. It's the good person! It's that I was say, for me, is the good person.
But, you know, everywhere we have the good and the bad. In Africa, too, it's like that. There is the good person, the bad person. Here too in America, there is the bad and the good. But me, I don't have to be worried about that. Because I'm good person. I know how to stay with the people. If I see you are bad for me, I can don't do bad to you too. I have to make sure I do the good, or I'm good for you, like that.
M: So just two more questions. Number one: what should Americans in general, Americans who don't know refugees, what should Americans know about refugees? What would you like to tell Americans about refugees?
B: Okay. To tell them, I can say, the refugees is the people like them too. But the only thing why they become like refugees is because their country is no good—they fight every day. So, they need the help, some place they can stay comfortable. They can gagner la vie quoi. [Earn a good life, what.]
M: Have a good life.
B: Yes, have a good life. And then, sauver la vie. Comme ça. Sauver la vie. [Save lives. Like that. Save lives.]
M: Save their lives.
B: Like that. But it's not good to treat bad the refugees. Because we’re the people too like them. It's the people like them, but then they have problems. I can say, for example, my neighbor, she can have problem. He can have problem. When I see that problem, I have to go to help him! Because me too, one day it can happen to me. He can help me, because he see that when I was help him. It's not good to see the refugee and then start treating him like the bad person, like the animal. No. When they take care of the animal here in America, is the way they can take care of refugee too. It's that! I know here, they like animals! You can don't kill animal here! Like you kill that, you have problem! (Laughs)
M: We have a lot of pets.
B: That one, they live, they let the animal to feel free and then to enjoy! They can let the refugee too to be like that. Yeah, we are person! We are not like an animal. It's that.
(Laughs)
M: Then the last question is the same. Oh no, not the last question! There's a second page!
What do Americans need to know about Africa?
B: The Americans they need to know about Africa. Mm. That question is a little hard for me. Because they—Africa is a good country for the people that was live there. But, another thing, it's not a good country because they fight every day and then they kill people. Like violence [French]. You don't have anything that you have done bad, but they can kill you. Can be your enemy, because he’s very mad, or is very angry, because his enemy was do it bad for you. So he going to pay for another people, going to do bad. That the problem. The African, the African country—he have too much different things that's bad. It’s very bad sometimes. It's good to live there because it's our country. But it's bad for the things they do. It's what it makes us to be, to come here, and to ask help for another country.
M: Do you know what the American dream is? Have you heard of the American dream?
B: American dream. Can you explain me all that?
M: Well, let’s ask, what is your dream for life in America?
B: Oh, my dream for here—oh my dream for here is, I can say—Before when I getting here, I was dream to become, like, to sing! To sing. I would like to sing.
M: You wanna be Beyoncé? (both laugh)
B: No Beyoncé! No Beyoncé! But I like her, I like her the way she sings. But I don't need to become like her. I need to become, like, to sing the gospel—gospel music. That was my future, like my dream. And then I would like to be—to have a good life, a good life. To have my salon: that was my dream too. And then to see my family, to be feel comfortable when we are. To have a good job, good life. I can say good life, only.
M: What does America mean to you?
B: What does the American mean to me?
M: What does America mean to you? How do you feel about America?
B: I don't feel bad! I feel good! I feel good like the way I can feel with my family or with my friends from my country. I feel good if I am with them. I feel like this [America] is my family. This is my friends. This is the sister, the brother—you know? I'm comfortable.
M: Comment t'expliqué les valeurs Américains? [How would you explain American values ?]
B: Les valeurs Américains. Okay, I can say in Français ou Anglais. It's that I am looking for—I'm looking the way I'm going to talk about them! Oh, I don't know. I don't know. Je ne sais pas comment—comment explique. Ce sont les bonnes personnes quoi. Oui. They, comment ils nous accueillent, parfois. Je vais dire le comment ils nous accueillent. Ils nous accueillent very, very good. And then, what I can say? What I can tell you. It's the good people. I don't know how I can say. Son valeurs est bien parce qu’ils nous aident beaucoup. Ils nous aident beaucoup. Comme-même, les gens on a—on ne sait pas—il y a des gens qui ne cessent pas—commencer remercier les gens— [I don’t know how to explain. These are good people, yes. How they welcomed us, sometimes. I want to say it, how they welcomed us. They welcomed us very, very good… Their values are good because they help us a lot. They help us a lot as they would help themselves. The people—one doesn’t know—there are people who don’t stop {helping}—to begin to thank the people.]
M: Remercier les gens.
B : Les personnes qui les aident, mais pour moi je veux remercier beaucoup. Je dis merci pour le gouvernement, merci pour les-le gens qui nous aident et nous accueillent ici, et montre les différents choses—à nous protègent quoi. Oui. Il y a les gens qui ne dorment pas. Ils pensent toujours à nous. Les Américains sont les gens qui est bien. [People who help us, but for me I want to give so much thanks. I say thank you to the government, thank you to the people who helped us and welcomed us here, and gave different things—who protected us, yes. They are people who don’t sleep. They think always of us. Americans are people who are good.]
Is the good person. They have hearts. Yeah, they have hearts. I can don't say that they bad people. For some people, you know, is the bad person. Maybe they is do it bad for them. But me, I don't get that bad. I don't see that. I just get every day the Americans good people. They talk to me, they help me, they show me a good heart. And then the people. J'arrivais ici, je n'ai aucune difficulté comme moi arriver quoi. C’est qui arrive, mais moi non. C’était tous simplement ap—à propos de mon enfant, pour la place pour la laisser, c'est juste que me menacer que je juger. C’est mon problème. C’est le problème que j'agis. I can say, les valeurs aussi, c'est parce que— [I arrived here, I didn’t have any difficulty how I arrived. Some who arrived, but me no. It was just because of my kid, for a place to leave her. It was just that that I judged was my problem. That was the problem that bothered me. I can say, the values also, that was because—]
You know in Africa, you can stay in Africa but you can never, never get that future. To say, I'm going—one day, I'm going to drive a car! One day I'm going to have my account. You know, one day I'm going to have the good life, to enjoy my life. Sometimes you can need that future, but you can don't never get. But here, in America, c'est ça les valeurs. Donc, il va prendre tous les gens a même temps... à même positions... donc, il n’y a pas des Américains, il n’y a pas des blonds, il n'y a pas des noirs, il n’y a pas quoi. Tout le monde, nous sommes de la même valeur. Nous sommes de la même cause. [These are the values. So, one is going to put all people at the same time in the same position. You don’t have Americans, whites, blacks, or whatever. The whole world, we are of the same value. We are for the same cause.]
Because we work for the same job. We can eat the same food. There is no way you can say, this one is rich, this one is—no, no, no. Sometimes the rich, too, they come to work at my work. It's my boss, but we work together! The big boss! If he come, he sees something is very hard for me, or it’s too much, I can don't finish that quick, he come to help me! And then you can don't know that, if somebody don't tell you this one is big boss, you can don't know. He's rich, but he come to work like you. So, it's--c'est prendre comme toi. Il ne va pas montrer comme c'est moi qui est riche. Ils ont des—beaucoup des choses. Ils ont des beaucoup des choses qui était montrer, qui est ça c’est—qui va t'apprécier quoi. Pour voir qu’ils ce sont les bonnes, les bonnes personnes. [He is taken just like you. He won’t put forth that it’s “me who is rich.” They {Americans} have many, many things. They have many things to show like that, that they are going to appreciate you. To see that they are good, good people.]
M: Aussi la liberté. [Also freedom]
B: La liberté, oui. C’est ça la liberté, si tu, tu—tu—if you work with your boss. You work together. In Africa you can don't work with your boss. The boss, he come just to tell you hey, do this. Do this, do this. But if you work with your boss, tu as les libertés, bonne. Tu peux parler avec lui, tu peux lui dit blagues, causes. C’est ça, la liberté. C’est éclair je dis que c'est sont les bonne personnes. Oui. [Liberty, yes. That’s freedom, if you, you—you—… you have liberty, good. You can speak with him, you can make jokes, argue. That’s freedom. It’s clear, I say, that they are good people. Yes.]
M: Do you want to stay in America for the rest of your life? Or do you want to return home?
B: (Laughs) Oh yeah, that one. If you told me to—I can don't get. I can don't go back home. No. Because I tell you: they was ask me that before I come here. They was ask us that question. We say no. Because why? They know we have the enemy there. And that enemy, they don't think good things for us. They just think to kill us if they see us. So, of course we can don't go there, because il n’y a pas des libertés. Il n’y a pas des paix. Peace. No—no peace. [There is no freedom. There is no peace.]
M: Do you want to become a citizen in America? Une citoyenne?
B: Citoyenne? No, I don't have that.
M: Tu veux? You want to be a citizen in America? You want me to say in it French? Tu veux être une citoyenne ici, aux États Unis?
B : Oui, c'est bonne idée. C'est bien. J'espère que personne peux pas—peux pas refuser ça. C'est bien. [Yes, it’s a nice idea. That’s good. I hope that no one—no one could refuse that. It’s good.]
M: Il y a beaucoup des temps avant ça. [There is some time before that.] Do you think of yourself as a refugee, or do you think of yourself as an American or an African?
B: Me, I think of myself—actually, I don't think anything! (Laughs) I don't think if I'm refugee. Sometimes I forget that I’m refugee. I think I'm home now. It's that I think. This is my home, my country. I don't know about, say, refugee, African. Sometime if they ask about the African, yeah-yeah, I remember I say, “Yes, I'm African.” But the thing about if I'm refugee or American or African—no. That one sometimes it don't come into my mind.
M: You're just Bahati.
B: I'm just Bahati. “Where you live?” “I live here, in Crafton, in America.”—But about Africa, that one sometimes it don't come into my mind. Because the only thing I was need in my life was protect—protection. It's that I was need. Some place I can feel like I'm free, I’m comfortable, I have peace only. That is just my life. I need only peace, be free, and then feel comfortable, and do everything I need to do in my life.
M: Is there anything else before we finish, anything else that you want to tell us about your life that we have not already talked about?
B: No, I don't have anything about that. Just I'm so happy. I'm so happy to see you guys, to give me this time to explain myself, and then to remind me everything I was forget. That one you know, I was forget. I don't know, because sometimes I need just to know my future. But now, it’s like you remind me where I was from, and what I need to do now. Like a future. Like my dreams. You remind me to be wake up if I was sleeping. Now I have to wake up again, to start to fight about my life. To start—it's that, I say thank you for, to show me again if I can explain myself about my life in English.
You see, that one is a good! It's good because I don't believe myself if I can do this time to explain myself like this in English. Before, if I see somebody, he explains in English, he talks in English—it's like I hear just the sound. You see, the sound. I don't hear anything; it's just the sound he do that I hear. I say, “Ah! What he is talk about?”
I can never talk on my life in this language. I don't know what it going to help me? What is that? But now look. It helps me too much. Too much. So, one thing I can say. Je peux dire ça en Français. Il ne faut pas jamais refuser ou négliger de faire les choses parfois tous les choses est très importants. Si c'est un langage, ou si c'est la travaille, si c'est—donc, je peux dire : everything is important. [I want to say this in French. You can never refuse or neglect to do anything, because everything is very important. If it’s a language, or if it’s the work, if it’s—So, I want to say: everything is important.]
Because now, look! I talk English. Before, I don’t know if I can talk them. I don't know if one day I can talk that. I don't know. I didn't know in my life that I can speak like this. I was hate so much the people they talk [English]. I remember one day I was in school, and then if the English teacher come in the class, I just leave class and go! It's that I do!
So, everybody they was so surprised. What?! Every day they ask me, “Why you don't like to stay if the teacher is coming?” And I say, “What is this language going to help me? It's going to take my time. I need to do another thing. But English, no. I can never leave this life. I can never leave this country.” I didn't have that. I don't believe one day it can happen to me.
But right now, I'm here. I thank God for that. So, everything is important. Everything.
M: Anything else you want to talk about before we conclude?
B: Yes. I know this one, this interview, is going to be heared for everybody everywhere. So, the only thing I can say about Americans is the good person. I could like to tell them to stay with that heart. To help the refugee. Because too many people they suffer there. They suff [suffer] so much. So much. You can don't see that because we are here. But if you go in Africa, you can see that.
It's good to continue to help the refugees. To open that door. To bring them here. That one, it's very good. They're [Americans] going to--donc, il va sauver beaucoup des gens. Oui. Au lieu, ne laisser des gens mourir. C’est mieux les sauver. C’est comme ça. C’est ça que je veux dire. [So, they can save many people. Yes. There, don’t let people die. It’s better to save them. It’s like that. That’s what I want to say.]
M: Très bien. Merci beaucoup. [Very good. Thank you so much.] Do you have anything you would like to show us that you've talk about, any pictures or books or anything you've talked about?
B: Okay, my picture from back home—I don't remember if I was bring them, or if I have them back here. I like to show—er, to share that. But the problem is, I have to look for that. I don't remember if I have it. But that one is good too, because I need to show the people my life. The before, and the life now. It's different; it's a big difference. So maybe they can know that this thing we do for help the refugee to come here is a good thing.
M: I think we can finish the recording now. It's, what, about, 5pm?
End of interview